[smokeping-users] Graph but no results

ITheodoridis at bankofgreece.gr ITheodoridis at bankofgreece.gr
Thu Oct 10 12:08:35 CEST 2013 

When I was messing with the telnetiosping module, I used perl scripts to
simulate the telnetios commands when I needed troubleshooting (the
module itself is a perl script). It led me to make some changes to the
module to suit my network configurations (the cisco configs).

If you can get a proper output (the numbers that result from the ping
output) you should be able to put them in a graph. The module parses the
output and creates an array. That array is used to feed the graph.

I'm taking a guess it's your cisco config that is not compatible with
the module. But it can be fixed.

I have also been using the rttmon module that uses SNMP to produce the
same effect. It's a more standard interface, less prone to errors and it
will not create telnet traps when it measures. However you do need to
enable SNMP write access to your devices. It's quite a common way to
measure a path's latency originating from a cisco device, used by a lot
of tools.

 

From: Tony DeMatteis [mailto:tonyd at commspeed.net] 
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:02 PM
To: Greg Sloop
Cc: smokeping-users at lists.oetiker.ch
Subject: Re: [smokeping-users] Graph but no results

 

The debug was actually directly from the TelnetIOSPing.pm.  I simply
uncommented a few statements and changed the path/filename and included
the $source at the top to clearly delineate the host it was printing
output from the Extended Ping results.

So I ran smokeping in debug mode.  Interesting... Smokeping isn't
getting any data to update the rrd with.  

pattern match timed-out at
/usr/share/perl5/Smokeping/probes/TelnetIOSPing.pm line 172
TelnetIOSPing: <censored>: got 

Calling
RRDs::update(/var/lib/smokeping/Network/core_to_esedo/esedo_to_mesa_rtr.
rrd --template
uptime:loss:median:ping1:ping2:ping3:ping4:ping5:ping6:ping7:ping8:ping9
:ping10:ping11:ping12:ping13:ping14:ping15:ping16:ping17:ping18:ping19:p
ing20 1380903220:U:20:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U:U)


It would appear that there is a problem waiting for the prompt after
issuing the "Terminal Length 0" command  What's odd is that a running
log of the ping command output shows results for the connected host as I
showed in my original post.  I know from everybody else's point of view,
your's included, that the obvious question "are you sure your seeing the
output from the host you think you are?".  Reasonable question.  I don't
know how I could be seeing otherwise, the debug print statements follow
the $telnet-> yada yada statements and result.

Ok, so the debug indicates there are no results due to a problem getting
to the ping command (line179 - $telnet->waitfor('/[\@\w\-\.]+[>#][
]*$/');) .  So I do the login to the router manually and it works (using
the password from the Probe config file for the smokeping user).  It
doesn't appear to be an authentication issue...

BTW - I use tacacs, and every router is auth'ing against the same source


root at smokeping1:/etc/smokeping# ssh smokeping at cr1.esedo


************************************************************
                      |             |
                     |||           |||
                    |||||         |||||
             .....:|||||||:.....:|||||||:.....
                  C i s c o S y s t e m s
************************************************************
Company         =  <censored>
Site Name       =  ESEDO
Location        =  <censored>
Device Name     =  cr1.esedo
FQDN            =  cr1.esedo.<censored>.net (ins: cr1.esedo)
Contact         =  <censored>
************************************************************

                        \\|//
                        (o o)
              -----oOO---(^)------------
 ***********************************************************
 * WARNING: This is a controlled access system...
 *
 *
 * Access to this equipment is restricted to <censored>
 * authorized employees only.  Any intrusions or misuse will
 * be prosecuted to the fullest extent of local, state &
 * federal law.
 *
 * All activities on this network are logged!!!
 *
 *
 *   If you are not an authorized user, disconnect now!!
 ***********************************************************
              ------------------oOO-----
                     |__|   |__|
                      | |   | |

Password: 

cr1.esedo>en
Password: 
cr1.esedo#ping
Protocol [ip]: 
Target IP address: <censored>
Repeat count [5]: 20
Datagram size [100]: 
Timeout in seconds [2]: 
Extended commands [n]: y
Source address or interface: 
Type of service [0]: 
Set DF bit in IP header? [no]: 
Validate reply data? [no]: 
Data pattern [0xABCD]: 
Loose, Strict, Record, Timestamp, Verbose[none]: v
Loose, Strict, Record, Timestamp, Verbose[V]: 
Sweep range of sizes [n]: 
Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 20, 100-byte ICMP Echos to <censored>, timeout is 2 seconds:
Reply to request 0 (4 ms)
Reply to request 1 (8 ms)
Reply to request 2 (4 ms)
Reply to request 3 (12 ms)
Reply to request 4 (12 ms)
Reply to request 5 (8 ms)
Reply to request 6 (8 ms)
Reply to request 7 (8 ms)
Reply to request 8 (4 ms)
Reply to request 9 (8 ms)
Reply to request 10 (4 ms)
Reply to request 11 (8 ms)
Reply to request 12 (4 ms)
Reply to request 13 (4 ms)
Reply to request 14 (4 ms)
Reply to request 15 (8 ms)
Reply to request 16 (4 ms)
Reply to request 17 (8 ms)
Reply to request 18 (8 ms)
Reply to request 19 (8 ms)
Success rate is 100 percent (20/20), round-trip min/avg/max = 4/6/12 ms
cr1.esedo#



On 10/04/2013 08:46 AM, Gregory Sloop wrote:

	The "debug" you sent was from *your* script, not a smokeping
--debug, right.
	
	Have you run smokeping --debug and watched the data/logs it
returns?
	
	Again, usually the problems are: 
	writing the data to the RRD - and running smokeping in debug
mode will show you what's happening here: [or for a slave - the apache +
apache-error logs]
	- or -
	reading the data from the RRD for presentation - and the apache
[and the apache error] logs will show you this.
	
	So, if you're sure there's no read problem, then I think we're
back to making sure that real data is hitting the RRD and a smokeping
--debug would probably be enlightening.
	
	-Greg

	Hi Greg,

It's odd because both targets were added to the conf at the same time
and are under the same parent.  It would be strange that one rrd file
would be writable/readable while to other not.  However, looking at the
suggestions you offered, I don't see any errors/problems with file
permissions or entries in the apache log.


# It would appear the rrd files have the proper permissions.  Same
owner:user for esedo_to_x (which does not display data in graph) as
pvdc_to_x (which does display data in graph).  The files are also being
updated.  Is there something here or elsewhere I am missing?

Thank you again....



root at smokeping1:/home/tonyd# ll /var/lib/smokeping/Network/core_to_esedo
total 23388
drwxr-xr-x 2 smokeping smokeping    4096 Oct  2 22:49 ./
drwxr-xr-x 6 smokeping smokeping    4096 Oct  2 10:53 ../
-rw-r--r-- 1 smokeping smokeping 2986808 Oct  4 08:13
esedo_to_foothills_rtr.rrd
-rw-r--r-- 1 smokeping smokeping 2986808 Oct  4 08:13
esedo_to_mesa_rtr.rrd
-rw-r--r-- 1 smokeping smokeping 2986808 Oct  4 08:13
esedo_to_montezona_rtr.rrd
-rw-r--r-- 1 smokeping smokeping 2986808 Oct  4 08:13
esedo_to_voc_rtr.rrd
-rw-r--r-- 1 smokeping smokeping 2986808 Oct  4 08:13
mm_to_foothills_rtr.rrd
-rw-r--r-- 1 smokeping smokeping 2986808 Oct  4 08:13
pvdc_to_esedo_core.rrd
-rw-r--r-- 1 smokeping smokeping 2986808 Oct  4 08:13
pvdc_to_mesa_rtr.rrd
-rw-r--r-- 1 smokeping smokeping 2986808 Oct  4 08:13
pvdc_to_voc_rtr.rrd



# This does not display data

tail -f /var/log/apache2/access.log

<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:07:12 -0700] "GET
/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo.esedo_to_mesa_rtr
HTTP/1.1" 200 2010
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML, like
Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:07:13 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/esedo_to_mesa_rtr_last_86400.png
HTTP/1.1" 200 21541
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:07:13 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/esedo_to_mesa_rtr_last_2592000.p
ng HTTP/1.1" 200 22492
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:07:13 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/esedo_to_mesa_rtr_last_31536000.
png HTTP/1.1" 200 22418
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:07:13 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/esedo_to_mesa_rtr_last_604800.pn
g HTTP/1.1" 200 20330
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:07:13 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/esedo_to_mesa_rtr_last_10800.png
HTTP/1.1" 200 21382
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:07:13 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/esedo_to_mesa_rtr_last_43200.png
HTTP/1.1" 200 20971
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.esedo_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:07:14 -0700] "GET /favicon.ico HTTP/1.1"
404 501 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML,
like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"


# This displays data

<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:14:14 -0700] "GET
/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr
HTTP/1.1" 200 2005
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML, like
Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:14:16 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/pvdc_to_mesa_rtr_last_2592000.pn
g HTTP/1.1" 200 25540
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:14:16 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/pvdc_to_mesa_rtr_last_10800.png
HTTP/1.1" 200 26251
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:14:16 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/pvdc_to_mesa_rtr_last_43200.png
HTTP/1.1" 200 29813
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:14:16 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/pvdc_to_mesa_rtr_last_604800.png
HTTP/1.1" 200 27440
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:14:16 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/pvdc_to_mesa_rtr_last_31536000.p
ng HTTP/1.1" 200 22782
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:14:16 -0700] "GET
/smokeping/images/Network/core_to_esedo/pvdc_to_mesa_rtr_last_86400.png
HTTP/1.1" 200 34500
"http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr"
<http://216.19.19.135/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Network.core_to_esedo
.pvdc_to_mesa_rtr>  "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"
<censored> - - [04/Oct/2013:08:14:16 -0700] "GET /favicon.ico HTTP/1.1"
404 501 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML,
like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.97 Safari/537.11"




	
	
	
	On 10/04/2013 07:48 AM, Gregory Sloop wrote:
	Have you checked the apache logs to see if it can actually read
the RRD files to get the data you want?
	
	Usually when there's an "empty" graph the problem is one of two
things:
	1) smokeping can't write the data to the RRD.
	2) the web-server can't read it.
	
	If you've really debugged things and you're sure it's
successfully writing to the RRD, then you'd want to watch the web-server
logs and see if it's really reading them.
	
	-Greg
	
	

	I meant to include my Probe definition.


+TelnetIOSPing

forks = 5
offset = 50%
packetsize = 56
step = 300
timeout = 10
iospass = <censored>
iosuser = smokeping
pings = 20
Hello,

Maybe someone could provide me with some assistance.  I have a
host/Target graph that get's created and populates the web page.
However, no results appear on the graph.  I am using the TelnetIOSPing
probe.  I have a number of other hosts/Targets that are using this
probe.  I have kicked out some debug results from
/usr/share/perl5/Smokeping/probes/TelnetIOSPing.pm and the host is
reachable and I see ping results, but they don't make it into the
graph.  In addition, no errors related to said host, are showing in the
smokeping.log.  Any ideas?

Thank you!
 

    open(OUTF,">>/tmp/TelnetIOSPing.debug") || die "Can't open OUTF:
$!";
    print OUTF "target => $dest\nsource => $source\nuser => $login\n";

    my $ok = $telnet->open(Host => $source,
                   Port => $port);

    print OUTF "\n";
    print OUTF "===========================\n";
    print OUTF "Connection to $source $ok\n";
    print OUTF "\n";

    #---- Code that does the log in and executes extended ping

    $telnet->prompt('/[\@\w\-\.]+[>#][ ]*$/');
    @output = $telnet->cmd("n");

    #$telnet->waitfor('/[\@\w\-\.]+[>#][ ]*$/');
    $telnet->print("quit");
    $telnet->close;

    print OUTF "closed Telnet connection\n";

    my @times = ();
    while (@output) {
        my $outputline = shift @output;
        chomp($outputline);
        print OUTF "$outputline\n";
        $outputline =~ /^Reply to request \d+ \((\d+) ms\)/ &&
push(@times,$1);
        print OUTF "$outputline => $1\n";
    }


<<< I see data in graph from this Target >>>

+++ pvdc_to_mesa_rtr
menu = Core to eSedo MESA RTR
title = Core Router to eSedo MESA RTR
probe = TelnetIOSPing
host = <censored>
source = <censored>


===========================
Connection to <censored> 1

closed Telnet connection
Type escape sequence to abort.
Type escape sequence to abort. =>
Sending 20, 56-byte ICMP Echos to <censored>, timeout is 2 seconds:
Sending 20, 56-byte ICMP Echos to <censored>, timeout is 2 seconds: =>
Reply to request 0 (1 ms)
Reply to request 0 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 1 (4 ms)
Reply to request 1 (4 ms) => 4
Reply to request 2 (1 ms)
Reply to request 2 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 3 (1 ms)
Reply to request 3 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 4 (1 ms)
Reply to request 4 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 5 (1 ms)
Reply to request 5 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 6 (1 ms)
Reply to request 6 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 7 (1 ms)
Reply to request 7 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 8 (4 ms)
Reply to request 8 (4 ms) => 4
Reply to request 9 (1 ms)
Reply to request 9 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 10 (1 ms)
Reply to request 10 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 11 (1 ms)
Reply to request 11 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 12 (1 ms)
Reply to request 12 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 13 (1 ms)
Reply to request 13 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 14 (1 ms)
Reply to request 14 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 15 (1 ms)
Reply to request 15 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 16 (1 ms)
Reply to request 16 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 17 (1 ms)
Reply to request 17 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 18 (1 ms)
Reply to request 18 (1 ms) => 1
Reply to request 19 (4 ms)
Reply to request 19 (4 ms) => 4
Success rate is 100 percent (20/20), round-trip min/avg/max = 1/1/4 ms
Success rate is 100 percent (20/20), round-trip min/avg/max = 1/1/4 ms
=> 4
target => <censored>
source => <censored>
user => smokeping



 
<<< I DO NOT see data in graph from this Target >>>

+++ esedo_to_mesa_rtr
menu = esedo Core to eSedo MESA
title = eSedo Core Router to eSedo MESA RTR
probe = TelnetIOSPing
host = <censored>
source = <censored>


===========================
Connection to <censored> 1

closed Telnet connection
Type escape sequence to abort.
Type escape sequence to abort. =>
Sending 20, 56-byte ICMP Echos to <censored>, timeout is 2 seconds:
Sending 20, 56-byte ICMP Echos to <censored>, timeout is 2 seconds: =>
Reply to request 0 (60 ms)
Reply to request 0 (60 ms) => 60
Reply to request 1 (52 ms)
Reply to request 1 (52 ms) => 52
Reply to request 2 (24 ms)
Reply to request 2 (24 ms) => 24
Reply to request 3 (64 ms)
Reply to request 3 (64 ms) => 64
Reply to request 4 (56 ms)
Reply to request 4 (56 ms) => 56
Reply to request 5 (40 ms)
Reply to request 5 (40 ms) => 40
Reply to request 6 (44 ms)
Reply to request 6 (44 ms) => 44
Reply to request 7 (60 ms)
Reply to request 7 (60 ms) => 60
Reply to request 8 (40 ms)
Reply to request 8 (40 ms) => 40
Reply to request 9 (36 ms)
Reply to request 9 (36 ms) => 36
Reply to request 10 (20 ms)
Reply to request 10 (20 ms) => 20
Reply to request 11 (20 ms)
Reply to request 11 (20 ms) => 20
Reply to request 12 (28 ms)
Reply to request 12 (28 ms) => 28
Reply to request 13 (28 ms)
Reply to request 13 (28 ms) => 28
Reply to request 14 (36 ms)
Reply to request 14 (36 ms) => 36
Reply to request 15 (20 ms)
Reply to request 15 (20 ms) => 20
Reply to request 16 (20 ms)
Reply to request 16 (20 ms) => 20
Reply to request 17 (8 ms)
Reply to request 17 (8 ms) => 8
Reply to request 18 (20 ms)
Reply to request 18 (20 ms) => 20
Reply to request 19 (44 ms)
Reply to request 19 (44 ms) => 44
Success rate is 100 percent (20/20), round-trip min/avg/max = 8/36/64 ms
Success rate is 100 percent (20/20), round-trip min/avg/max = 8/36/64 ms
=> 44
target => <censored>
source => <censored>
user => smokeping



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	-- 
	Gregory Sloop, Principal: Sloop Network & Computer Consulting
	Voice: 503.251.0452 x82
	EMail: gregs at sloop.net <mailto:gregs at sloop.net> 
	http://www.sloop.net <http://www.sloop.net> 
	--- 
	
	-- 
	Gregory Sloop, Principal: Sloop Network & Computer Consulting
	Voice: 503.251.0452 x82
	EMail: gregs at sloop.net <mailto:gregs at sloop.net> 
	http://www.sloop.net <http://www.sloop.net> 
	--- 

 

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?? ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ??????????? ???. ???? ?????? ???????????? ???????????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??????? (???) ???????????? ????????? ???? ??? ?? ???????? ???? ??????????? ?? ?? ?????????? ? ???????? ????????? ? ???? ???????? ??? ???.

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??? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????????? ????????????, ??????????? ?? ???????????? ?????? ???? ???????????? ???????????? ??? ????????? ??? ?? ?????????? ?? ??????. ??????????? ??????????, ??????? ? ????? ?????? ? ????????? ??? ????????? ????? ????? ???????????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ???????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????.


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